Sci-Fi/Fantasy Fiction

» suelange - Safety etc.

Just one point regarding this statement:

"...traditionally, women are the advocates of safety, of reining things in, while men are the ones who are assumed to want 'freedom.' "

I there's a misconception that women have a taming effect on men. That culture and civilzation come about because women "rein" in the the men. That women are first and foremost concerned with security and men are constantly fighting against that concern. They're all Jack Kerouac deep down inside and women are such spoilers.

In reality I think men have put the reins on women. They do not like women to have freedom because when women have freedom they don't know who they're "baby daddy is." I think men are uncomfortable with that. They don't like other men's children so down through the centuries, this built in home and hearth model has developed where the women stay home and tend the kids and the man protects everyone. The whole thing works, but only if the woman fears for her safety and so stays put.

Sue Lange

-- posted by suelange

» nancysinead - Safety etc.

Thanks for posting this -- it takes the discussion into a direction that I'm very interested in. I agree -- I think the idea that women tame men is a myth. But our culture has invested a lot of power in that myth.

I notice that a common theme among male humor columnists is how their wives -- their wonderful, perfect wives -- have civilized them. They present this as respect for women, and I suspect they'd be shocked to find that some of us consider it insulting. Men are perfectly able to grow up and act like mature adults (when necessary) on their own.

And women have the same urges for freedom. In the story I was discussing in the interview, freedom is represented by the open road. It's an image that's personally very powerful for me. In writing the story as gender neutral, I think I let all readers identify (perhaps uncomfortably) with my main character. It seems like an interesting way to play with the issue.

It is issues like this that make me feel strongly that feminism still has a lot of work to do. That old idea that a man must protect his wife and kids can be as toxic for men as for women. I just heard a report the other day about a man who died in Iraq -- he'd joined the service because it gave him a good job so that he could provide for his family. He didn't think he could get a better one. Now certainly people who have children have some obligations there, but perhaps if he hadn't had this powerful image that he must do the taking care, he and his wife together could have come up with a better way to take care of each other and the kids, one that didn't require him to risk his life in a bad war.

You know, this would make a great WisCon panel for next year -- Challenging the Myth that Women Tame Men. Let's suggest it. We've got two panelists right here!

-- posted by nancysinead

» veritas - Safety etc.

Sue,
I know this is old (July '06) but I have to point out that you are so far out there somebody needs to pull you back. If you don't think women have a calming effect on men, let me assure you that if not for women, this world would really be a hell. Women keep everything together and always have. That is life experience talking. Remember about the children, you know they are yours. We have to make sure they are ours. Most men will support their DNA, but others are a waste of their time. When a lion takes over a pride, the first thing he does is kill all the cubs. Ponder on that. Ever wonder why it's always the boyfriend or stepfather arrested for abusing a baby or child to death? That's no excuse, but the instinct is the same. I digress. As history shows and Will Durant said, show me a civilization where women are free and I'll show you a civilization that is on it's way down. That is not an exact quote but it's close. Women keep it together, but the men have to run things or other men will. You have your job and we have ours. Don't butt in on our job, do your own and our civilization will last for a while. Why do you think Muslims believe we are weak, our civilization decaying, our national will gone? We don't control our women. (Their thoughts, not mine. My wife would smack me.) P.S. That means no combat zones.

-- posted by veritas